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Success Breeds Success

Written by brogers | Mar 25, 2009

In the case of Thoroughbred nicking theory it is often literally true that success breeds success. Those of us who have been looking at Thoroughbred pedigrees for any length of time will note that as a stallion starts his career he is mated -- especially in this era of larger books -- to a wide variety of broodmare sire lines. It is almost like stallion managers take the approach that if a wide enough net is cast, they will catch something!

Invariably however, if the stallion breeds true to his sire line, the progeny that excel are usually from the broodmare sire lines that his own sire had success with. It is rare to find a successful stallion that does not have at least some positive correlation to the broodmare sire lines that his own sire nicked well with.

While it is one thing to identify a strong nick early in a stallion's career, it is another to sustain it. The challenge is especially difficult when the stallion is mated subsequently to a disproportionate number of mares from the broodmare sire line that he has previously had success with. From a statistical viewpoint at least, considering true opportunity by counting the number of times that the cross has actually been tried, you may end up with the nick rating being depressed over time if it is not a case of true affinity.

In North America, a good example is the Taylor Made stallion Unbridled's Song (TrueNicks,SRO) . Early success with mares by the likes of Buddha (TrueNicks,SRO), Magnificent Song, etc, has seen the stallion mated to a large number of mares by Storm Cat and his sons. Indeed there are now 82 foals bred on the direct Unbridled's Song/Storm Cat nick. When you consider that this is 8% of all the foals that Unbridled's Song has ever had it is quite a number. (And one that is likely to continue to increase as Storm Cat mares have high commercial value, and Unbridled's Song is a top-choice stallion from a commercial sense.) Thankfully, to date the nick has withstood the pressure, producing nine stakes winners -- a proportion higher than Unbridled's Song has done with all other broodmare sire lines and also better than Storm Cat mares have done with all other sire lines. It is just a solid nick.

We also note with interest that the reverse is also doing well. Hold Me Back recently joined Alpha Kitten, Etched, and Meal Penalty as stakes winners by sons of Storm Cat out of Unbridled's Song mares, giving us further confidence that the sire line affinity is indeed going to withstand the test of time.

Moving to Australia, we note that the Redoute's Choice (AUS) filly Allez Wonder (AUS) became yet another stakes winner (number 13 to be precise) for Redoute's Choice out of a Sir Tristram-line mare March 22 when she was the surprise winner of The Illawarra Mercury Keith F Nolan Classic. Redoute's Choice now has stakes winners out of mares by Zabeel (NZ) (3), Marauding (NZ) (2), Military Plume (NZ) (2), Dr. Grace (2), Sovereign Red (NZ) (1), and Sir Tristram himself (3). There is no doubt that in years to come he will receive a lot of mares by Sir Tristram and his sons and we are willing to bet that this nick also withstands the pressure of its own success.

11 Comments:

Dont forget the breeding of Cee's Tizzy and Cee's Song.. a perfect match that produced stakes winners

Ashley 25 Mar 2009 9:26 AM

The more inbreeding the better eh!?

Not to mention that champions look like good nicks because... they've already won.

Truth 25 Mar 2009 4:22 PM

I'm not sure about "the more inbreeding the better.." but in general, inbreeding to or through related strains around the fourth and fifth generations avoids the risks of very close inbreeding, while bringing more predictability based on multiples of related strains further back in the pedigree.

There is no one way to breed a great horse, however, and they can be as inbred as Coronation V (2 x 2 to Tourbillon), or as outcrossed as Secretariat (free of inbreeding at five generations).

Not all Champions are the products of successful nicks - which are more often than not due to some inbreeding or linebreeding factors - but there is a considerable tendency for them to be bred on nicks that were also successful before the Champions arrived.

There are no certainties in Thoroughbred breeding, but there are observable tendencies and trends, and it it certainly pays to follow, and where possible, anticipate these.

Alan Porter 25 Mar 2009 4:49 PM

Alan, how would you compare Coronation who you noted as tightly bred to the outcrossed Secretariat in their ability to transmit their capacity (i.e. stamina, speed, vigor) to their off-spring?

newsline2 26 Mar 2009 5:37 AM

I do know that Secretariat was a very inconsistent getter of physical type, even among his best (for example Risen Star and Lady's Secret). I think as far as performance, he was also frequently somewhat dominated by his mares. He has become a great broodmare sire of sires (A.P. Indy, Storm Cat, Gone West, etc.). In part this is possibly due to x-chromosome related factors from his dam, who was a great producer.

Coronation V had a blocked fallopian tube, and never produced a foal.  Her sister, Ormara, was dam of Locris (by Venture VII, by Relic). He won the Prix Jean Prat, a group I level race, and was later a successful sire in Brazil. She's ancestress of a number of other good winners. One would certainly expect a very closely inbred horse to breed on more consistently than an outcross, both in type and aptitude.

Alan Porter 26 Mar 2009 9:26 AM

I am getting to the conclusion after studing a lot of pedigrees and sires, that when a horse has a unique capacity based on a Characteristic transmited by his damsire (Secretariat, Princequillo) he is not going to reproduce himself in his sons, as the are not going to receive the female influence of the Xsex cromossome. When he delivers daughters, some would expres the X of the damsire and some the x of their own madam, so as an average only 50% of the females would expres it and only a 25% of the progeny.

The X factor is one of theese qualities. The only way for Secretariat to repeat his ability in his male progreny was to cover mares carring at least one Xcromossome so that the product could be large hearted as Secretariat. It is not a casualty that both General Assemby and Risen Star were from mares carrying the X factor.

As Alan says, the is not a written rule for everything but observation can help. This example of Secretariat happens also with Dancing Brave.

Regards and sorry for my english (I am from Spain)

Alfonso 26 Mar 2009 10:29 AM

Unbridled's Song produces alot of offspring that have constant soundness problems. As long as they're fast,  that's what matters. I'm sure this stallion will be around for a long time to pass on his soundess issues to many generations to come. This horse had to run the derby in a bar shoe because of his serious soundess issues and they're breeding mares to him.  The future definitely contains much tradgedy when an unsound stallion is selected as the epitome of perfection and breed to him if you want a winner, or more like an unsound thoroughbred who may not make it back to the barn after a race. The problem with this industry is it doesn't learn from past mistakes. Push for sound, healthy breeding stallions,  not the unsound, and especially the ones that don't last long on the track because they're always getting injured,  geld them because they are what is considered soft-boned and the breed doesn't need that and the general public doesn't need to witness what happens to many soft boned race horses on the track.

hatever 27 Mar 2009 10:57 AM

Hatever

I think that is a huge over-simplification in the analysis of Unbridled's Song. The foot problem was not an inherited issue, and could have been taken care of over time, but he was on a program to get him to the Derby. I don't hear any complaints about the feet of his offspring.

What is really happening is that trainers are just starting to learn not to press on them too early. They have precocity in terms of ability, but they are not really ready to press on early.

Unbridled's Song himself races a near Champion at two, ran eight times at three, including two grade one wins (bad foot and all), and was a stakes winner again at four in his only start, so he wasn't that fragile.

Plenty of his offspring have won good races as older horses too, including Thorn Song, Splendid Blended, First Defence, Political Force, Even the Score, Domestic Disputed, Eurosilver, Honest Man - actually of his best, more won good races as older horses than didn't. Incidentally, his best runners from his shuttle crops in Australia have made huge numbers of starts, the top three have 60, 65, and 70 starts.

I also believe that it's a lot easier to start with brilliance and breed in soundness, that to start with soundness, and to create brilliance.

Alan Porter 27 Mar 2009 1:07 PM

As far as unsoundness goes, wasn't Eight Belles by Unbridled's Song? Didn't she have a problem?  What about Old Fashioned?  Isn't he also a son of Unbridled's Song?  Isn't he also now out of the Derby due to a slab fracture (which has been fixed, hopefully)?  I see some kind of pattern here, or maybe just looking for ghosts?

highline 16 Apr 2009 9:24 PM

Add Dunkirk as the latest UBS to suffer a set back.

Sad.

Arbouwkamp 09 Jun 2009 1:19 PM

ALAN,If you had owned Secretariat what mare bloodline would you have bred him to.He had some decent male offspring which included General Assembly,Risen Star,and Tinners Way.D.Wayne Lucas said he would have bred Secretariat to the fastest mares he could find.People always remember his Triple Crown Races but forget he was also a grass champion as well.He was so unique.Also I feel that their is a huge question mark that still hangs over the validity of nicking patterns especially when one gets to the third and forth generation in a horses pedigree.

Otisxx@aol.com 28 Jan 2010 8:34 PM

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